Swamp Ghost & Black Cat Pass B-17 Recovery

Discussion about the history of B-17E 'Swamp Ghost' and its recovery.

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Buzzking
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Post by Buzzking » Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:06 pm

L_Eagle,

I would love to see the paperweork you talk about when it comes to US Aircraft "LOST DURNING COMBAT MISSIONS" that was what happen to Swam Ghost the United State never I repeat never gave up ownership of COMBAT LOST AIRCRAFT if you don't beleive me then I suggest you pick up the phone and give the DoD a call in Washington they can explain it to you. When David T. start his little recoverys in the 70s the first group he talk to was the DoD and they told him that anything that was "WRECK" or ABANDON" was not there's but any and all "COMBAT LOST AIRCRAFT" were and he would have to fiule a claim witht he Dept. of the Air Force.

Also the PNG Goverment has been informed by the United States Navy that all of there aircraft in and around PNG are there ownership you might want to go and ask the Aussie Goverment about the US Naval Aircraft dump off the Gold Coast and what they would do if anyone try to recover them with out there permission.

See I've been involved with this for along time also and know the ins and outs.

If you care to depate me on the finer parts then so be it.

BZK

Dan King
2nd Lieutenant
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Recovery

Post by Dan King » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:19 am

Does anyone know why there isn't the same fervor to recover vehicles such as tanks, trucks etc..?

There is intense interest in recovering all aircraft regardless if they contain human remains or not. Yet there seem to be a lot of tracked vehicles rusting into the ground witih no one clamouring after them.

Any comments?

Laurent
Corporal
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Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 8:02 pm

Post by Laurent » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:25 pm

Buzzking wrote:
Also the PNG Goverment has been informed by the United States Navy that all of there aircraft in and around PNG are there ownership you might want to go and ask the Aussie Goverment about the US Naval Aircraft dump off the Gold Coast and what they would do if anyone try to recover them with out there permission.


BZK
Not a specialist in international law but i would that the US Navy would definitely loose in this case. It hopefully looks common cense that its still for a country (PNG or any other) to legally decide what should be done with what was left over on their own soil at the end of WWII and NOT the US Navy. Hopefully, national law still prevail on US Navy law.

Regards,

Laurent

Colin C Tigwell
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Post by Colin C Tigwell » Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:59 pm

In actual fact. all around the world there is great interest in recovering wheeled, tracked vehicles, and of course tanks etc.

Particulary in the USA, there are great problems in re importing military vehicles back into the country. The reasons given are preety weak, but the rules appear to be inflexable.

Still this has not stopped the collectors in doing there thing, but it has helped to push up prices, Bren Gun carriers and half tracks bring around $20,000 if in good shap, original and complete. smaller tanks like the Stuart go go for $60,000.

A goos example of a MB jeep, you will not buy under $10,000 and so the list goes on.

IN Australia, NZ, Europe, Canada, UK and Norway the groups are expanding, the majority is US based equipment. Little is seen for example of German armour, and in that country ownership is not looked on with any favour.

So in answer to your question, the collection of military vehicles is alive well, and growing all the time.

Thank goodness there are people who believe in saving all of our history.

If you want an idea of how expansive it can be, visit the Ford Museum, took my wife there, and it opened her eyes.

Regards

Col
Vietnam Vet and proud of it.

DaveM2
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Recovery

Post by DaveM2 » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:03 pm

Dan King wrote:Does anyone know why there isn't the same fervor to recover vehicles such as tanks, trucks etc..?

There is intense interest in recovering all aircraft regardless if they contain human remains or not. Yet there seem to be a lot of tracked vehicles rusting into the ground witih no one clamouring after them.

Any comments?
There is litle interest in Japanese tanks, lets face it they were crap. Allied tanks are quite numerous already and are available at reasonable prices. It would be a totally different story if they were German - Tigers and Panthers being the 'holy grail' of the tank world

Dave

clutchfan
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Post by clutchfan » Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:25 am

We're all Pacific War history buffs here, and, contrary to what a previous poster said about me, I am well aware of the war in Papua New Guinea, probably much more aware of it than most Americans who have an interest in WW2. Since we are all on the same wavelength in that regard, it is mystifying that some people DON'T support getting the few recoverable relics from the war OUT of the swamps and jungles, AWAY from the hazards of the elements and vandals, and into the proper hands. These rare and valuable pieces of history need to be preserved. The idea that they should remain because of their impact on local tourism is laughable...how many people would want to visit a PNG swamp on their vacation?? I can see it now, "I went to New Guinea and all I got was this lousy malaria"!!! Seriously, it makes more sense to get anything that is still worth recovering the hell out of there,and into Australia, New Zealand, Europe, the U.S...anywhere but a swamp.

MkVb
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Re: Recovery

Post by MkVb » Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:48 pm

Dan King wrote:Does anyone know why there isn't the same fervor to recover vehicles such as tanks, trucks etc..?

There is intense interest in recovering all aircraft regardless if they contain human remains or not. Yet there seem to be a lot of tracked vehicles rusting into the ground witih no one clamouring after them.

Any comments?
For those that are interested

I found this site while doing some research I am sorry that it is not in english but it has some great pics of what is still floating around and what is also being recovered in europe.It is amazing what you can find with a metal detector.

http://www.detektorweb.cz/index.4me?s=s ... &xb=2&vd=1

There is some pics in there of a Stug recovered from a swamp which is worth a look at.It is almost new when it came out but looks decidely second hand now.

David McNeill
2nd Lieutenant
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Location: London, UK

Re: Recovery

Post by David McNeill » Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:15 am

MkVb wrote:
Dan King wrote:Does anyone know why there isn't the same fervor to recover vehicles such as tanks, trucks etc..?

There is intense interest in recovering all aircraft regardless if they contain human remains or not. Yet there seem to be a lot of tracked vehicles rusting into the ground witih no one clamouring after them.

Any comments?
For those that are interested

I found this site while doing some research I am sorry that it is not in english but it has some great pics of what is still floating around and what is also being recovered in europe.It is amazing what you can find with a metal detector.



http://www.detektorweb.cz/index.4me?s=s ... &xb=2&vd=1

There is some pics in there of a Stug recovered from a swamp which is worth a look at.It is almost new when it came out but looks decidely second hand now.
Some more details on some of the pictures shown are available here:

http://www.lerenfort.fsnet.co.uk/page3.html

spoerjm2
Corporal
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Location: Madison, WI

Swamp Ghost - B-17 recovery from Black Cat Pass

Post by spoerjm2 » Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:15 am

There should be an international protocol as to who retains ownership of, or retains claim to shipwrecks, crashes and sites. It would appear as if each plane, ship or incident area should be considered as their own individual battlefield. Interested parties would have to be ranked as to their percentage of rights to a claim. Whoever had the highest percentage would have first dibs. I would guess that survivors, families, the country where the wreck occurred, the country of original ownership of the plane and last and least, organizations that want to put the item on display, all have claims.
I, personally, believe that wrecks that involved fatalities should just rest and should only be salvaged when development occurs. I would insist that remains be repatriated to the families whenever wrecks are located. Some of the efforts have bordered on sleazy. Some pit the locals against the governments. Let the dead rest...
JMS

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