Recover them Yes or No

Discussion about wrecks and losses as well as historic sites in the Pacific.

Moderator: Moderator

Recover All Aircraft From The Pacific?

Yes
127
79%
No
33
21%
 
Total votes: 160

Tonyt_nz
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Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:36 am

Re: Recover them Yes or No

Post by Tonyt_nz » Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:43 pm

Whether its 1 person or 1000 coming to see these wrecks, should not justify wealthy collectors coming in buying up wrecks, which for the most part cannot be restored anyway. Here in New Zealand, we have quite a few WW2 wrecks, generally only trampers get to see them, however you don't see people coming along uplighting aircraft for restoration or for private collections. The only time i would see a wreck being taken for restoration, would be by a govt/museum of the plane's origin, with the co-op with the country it's removing it from, because the wreck was of a condition that warranted restoration or had significant historical value (Say a famous pilot's aircraft) When I see on TV, completely mangled wrecks with NO restoration value being plucked out with forklifts or via a group of people shaking it out of it final resting place is just wrong. I'd like to know what right some of these people think they have removing these wrecks.

richard rudd
1st Lieutenant
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2003 2:08 am

Re: Recover them Yes or No

Post by richard rudd » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:48 pm

Just one example of the tragedy of NOT recovering wrecks. In the early 70s I was able to land at Gasmata, New Britain and have a look at the unique Japanese WW2 aircraft there.

1. Val dive bomber, in diving pose, blown up on its nose with the tail hook pointing skywards. Very complete, later recovered and still exists today. USA
2. A Zero down the other end of the strip, which I didnt see then but later, recovered and used to/ is the restored example with the War Museum. Australia.
3. A Nell twin engined bomber, complete airframe, restorable...NOT recovered , scrapped and this rare example NO LONGER exists. Never heard of one in any Museum, anywhere.
4. A Dinah,high performance, high altitude reccon. machine, complete airframe, readily restorable... NOT recovered, scrapped, only leaving a hacked bit of centre section to mark its passing. VERY rare species only ONE surviving example in the world that I'm aware of. UK
As an aeroplanist I know I would love to see these techo marvels from 70 years ago either static or flying
Out at the jungle crash site disintergration leads to extinction. These salvagable but unrecovered examples just went the same way but quicker, due to the cold chisel and axe. An aeronautical tragedy really.
Would you visit an Air Museum with nothing in it? The Zero, NZ National Musem? only exists because it WAS salvaged. They must be preserved for future generations, otherwise the technology and stories are forever lost.

NS38th_Aristaeus
2nd Lieutenant
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 11:04 am
Location: Pensacola FL
Contact:

Re: Recover them Yes or No

Post by NS38th_Aristaeus » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:02 pm

Tonyt_nz wrote:Whether its 1 person or 1000 coming to see these wrecks, should not justify wealthy collectors coming in buying up wrecks, which for the most part cannot be restored anyway. Here in New Zealand, we have quite a few WW2 wrecks, generally only trampers get to see them, however you don't see people coming along uplighting aircraft for restoration or for private collections. The only time i would see a wreck being taken for restoration, would be by a govt/museum of the plane's origin, with the co-op with the country it's removing it from, because the wreck was of a condition that warranted restoration or had significant historical value (Say a famous pilot's aircraft) When I see on TV, completely mangled wrecks with NO restoration value being plucked out with forklifts or via a group of people shaking it out of it final resting place is just wrong. I'd like to know what right some of these people think they have removing these wrecks.
It is odd that you have demonized the ppl who have slaveged and preserved our aviation history for future generations to see but not one word about the locals who have scrapped rare aircraft for money.
CAN'T TALK; GOTTA SHOOT
http://www.Hawaiiclipper.com
http://www.NS38th.com
http://www.com-central.net
Find Them, Restore Them, Fly'Em

deepport
Corporal
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:40 am

Re: Recover them Yes or No

Post by deepport » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:29 am

Just adding to this blog I have been diving wrecks all round pacific since mid 70s most wrecks are now in very poor condition 20 or so years most will have lost most of things inside as steel n iron rusts 24hrs Lots of wrecks have very interesting things that should be treated n put on display so heaps of interested folks will see these artifacts for a very long time to come ps there are artifacts that were to see previously but are now burried in silt n mud never to see daylight again cos of decaying wrecks

mathewss
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Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:47 pm

Re: Recover them Yes or No

Post by mathewss » Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:08 am

Definitely recover the aircraft and return any remains of fliers home. As has been pointed out, they will ot be there after a few more years so what is still there should be recovered now.

kingofgamesdotnet
Private
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:51 am

Re:

Post by kingofgamesdotnet » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:49 pm

Free Games
If no fatalities occured..save what you can

Fatalities involved.. It stays put..

richard rudd
1st Lieutenant
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2003 2:08 am

Re: Recover them Yes or No

Post by richard rudd » Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:29 am

Seems a bizarre criteria for recovery or not. Some recoverable /restorable wrecks may have had the pilot come to grief before... bailed out, or after the crash /landing... didnt survive on the ground.

All wrecks with bone fragments, recovered and properly treated with respect, give the relatives closure, if they didnt know what had happened to their loved ones before. By recovering the aircraft as well, the stories of the fighting men and women can be told... and the restored artifact gives the history for generations to come. And in a Museum, many, many more people will see it and know the story.
Left in the jungle or under the sea, most will be gone and the stories forgotten.
Record, recover, restore... Lest we Forget.

Big Johnny
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Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:25 am

Re: Recover them Yes or No

Post by Big Johnny » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:53 pm

After 60+ years in a saltwater enviriment, how much is left to salvage. I think all the good airframe have been gobbled up by now. Why don't they take all the money spent on salvage and hire some skilled aircraft workers and just build new ones????? There is more skill needed to build a modern composite racer, than an all aluminum Zero. Also think of the pilots and crews that died in the wrecks, some are still there unaccounted for.

coolingwater911
Corporal
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:08 pm
Location: Magnolia, TX

Re: Recover them Yes or No

Post by coolingwater911 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:24 pm

Recover all of the planes. As far as human remains.. get graves registration out and recover them. ALL of them!

Sydhuey
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Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:04 am
Location: Brisbane QLD Australia

Re: Recover them Yes or No

Post by Sydhuey » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:08 am

I am all for recovery, to me it is more of a memorial to those lost as a restored or preserved wreck than leaving it in the Jungle and calling it a war grave leave it alone , in another 20 years they won't be there at all, almost 20 years ago now I was involved in the restoration of the RAAF's Boston at the RAAF museum at Point Cook, during the recovery of the half dozen US A-20's and the RAAF Boston, the wreck of the Boston flown by Flt Lt Bill Newton V.C. on his last mission was located were he ditched it several miles from Salamaua, thought was put into recovering this historicaly important wreck and to preserving it as found on the sea floor similar to what the RAF did to a Halifax wreck on display at the RAF Museum in the UK, but the recovery was knocked on the head as one of the crew went down with the a/c it is now considered a war grave and cannot be touched, I believe this was a great waste as the a/c in now deteriorating more and more each year and in a couple of years won't even be there, to me the only a/c flown by a V.C. winner in the world on display at the Australian War Memorial would have been a better longer lasting memorial to Newton and his crew and to all allied aircrew in New Guinea in the dark days of 42/43.
On a similar note the Boston recovered and restored at the RAAF museum was flown twice by Bill Newton on missions and had one gunner killed(Sgt H.C.Taylor) and one wounded(Sgt D.O Duncan) on a night missin to Lae in may 1943, yet during the restoration it didn't even come up that a crewman was killed on it , to me this a/c is more of a memorial to aircrew in ww2 than a wreck left to rot in the jungle.

Steve Birdsall
2nd Lieutenant
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:31 am

Re: Recover them Yes or No

Post by Steve Birdsall » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:27 pm

Good points, well made.

JimBeamer5
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Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:32 am

Re: Recover them Yes or No

Post by JimBeamer5 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:04 am

Recover them all. Any remains treated with utmost respect and given to families for closure. The Pacific Nations where they are recovered from would be paid a "licence fee" for the recovery. We'd have the aircraft, the families the remains of their loved ones, and Pacific Nations get an income. A whole industry could be created which would mean jobs. A win-win-win-win IMHO.

JB5

commandant
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Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:36 pm

Re: Recover them Yes or No

Post by commandant » Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:52 pm

Any wreck worth restoring or saving from the ravages of the jungle should be recovered. No bleeding heart crying about selvedge laws. The bottom line is that if now recovered they will simply be destroyed by the environment that they are in. Unfortunately, any wrecks in the Pacific theater are probably well passed recovering.

ProudKerman
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Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:03 pm

Re: Recover them Yes or No

Post by ProudKerman » Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:10 pm

Gday Folks

I am new to the forums but not to the warbird scene, I've been collecting for a couple of years and am looking at starting a museum. I want to recover wabirds to put it simply.
I have little to no experience in this physically. Obviously I've been reading up on it though and I have plans to visit places with experience aswell as talk to people who have.
Any tips at all, reading material, research to do, very broad question I know? Whats the best location? PNG? How do i get a permit, I do know that not many have been recovered from there in a long time. So how can I start it back up. I don't have the money to mobilize right now that's why I am looking for information while i get the money to physically inspect and visiting wrecks and places. Any help would be great, lets see these aircraft recovered and actually preserved instead of rotting away to nothing.

Regards,

Kerman

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