Recover them Yes or No

Discussion about wrecks and losses as well as historic sites in the Pacific.

Moderator: Moderator

Recover All Aircraft From The Pacific?

Yes
126
79%
No
33
21%
 
Total votes: 159

norge
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Post by norge » Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:48 pm

Hi Chris
The one good thing our Captain on our ship did was to give you liberty (day off) on your birthday unless off course we were out to sea
one Old swabby
Harry

Mr.Chris
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Post by Mr.Chris » Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:51 pm

Hi Harry:

I was in the Nav. too, and our cap'n made us paint the ship too much!

Laurent
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Post by Laurent » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:28 pm

NO, it should not have been recovered as i may have had the chance to go to PNG and have the unique experience to visit it in situ.

YES, recovery was definitely the solution as i cannot be selfish and recovery and export was the only realistic solution to preserve SG for future generations.

Laurent

NS38th_Aristaeus
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Post by NS38th_Aristaeus » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:54 pm

Laurent wrote:NO, it should not have been recovered as i may have had the chance to go to PNG and have the unique experience to visit it in situ.

YES, recovery was definitely the solution as i cannot be selfish and recovery and export was the only realistic solution to preserve SG for future generations.

Laurent
Now u can take the cash u would have spent treking through PNG and visit an airshow in the U.S. where u can spend a little more cash and ride in a real live flying B17, that has been restored.
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NS38th_Aristaeus
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Post by NS38th_Aristaeus » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:47 am

This is the end result of many bomber restorations.
This is but one example.
http://www.bomberrides.org/menu.htm
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wreckology
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What to do?

Post by wreckology » Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:32 pm

What to do about wrecks?

First if there are human remains then they should be returned to their native country for proper burial, but the aircraft themselves should be left as a memorial to the sacrifices the crew made. If there is a wreck with no bones in it, their still is a possibility that there could be bone fragments so when it comes to salvaging I belive it should be done by a professional team because amatuer salvagers may compromise the DNA samples. If it is known for a fact that the pilot survived the crash and the plane was written off as a loss then I am all for restoration to flying conditions becasue there are not enough warbirds flying today. When i hear the drone of prop driven plaens over head it pisses me off that 9 times out of 10 its a cessna instead of a Cosair or a Lightning.

spoerjm2
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Wrecks and Losses - Recovery or not?

Post by spoerjm2 » Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:05 am

Gentlemen:
Can we not disagree peacefully? Can we not abide by whatever laws may exist? Can we not attempt to show respect for the dead? Just how many museum pieces and restored fliers do we need? I would have to assume that Truk Lagoon and Pearl Harbor as huge battlefields generate respect as should the individual battlefield of a downed fighter or sunken minisub. A main concern should be reuniting remains with a family, while there are still survivors who remember. Just think of the sisters of the missing pilot in California. They wondered until this past year, what happenned to their brother who went missing in the mountains. A sub was found off Thailand and another off the tip of Alaska. These were missing ships that left the family with no closure. Costs and salvage recovery should be part of a different forum. As the son of a stateside WWII vet, who lost comrades here, I realize this subject generates hard opinions and strong feelings. My generation worried about the missing fliers in Viet Nam.
JMS

jose50
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leave them be..

Post by jose50 » Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:57 am

It would be an impossibility to raise and restore all the aircraft lost during the various Pacific campaigns. What would the criteria be? Why just aircraft? Why not raise and restore to running condition or museum quality the hundreds of warships lost during this time, or the submarines, or the oil tankers or the support vessels? Where do you stop?
There are millions of tons of war materiels lost during any conflict. The operative word here is LOST. Let it be.
Regards to all, Joe

jose50
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Post by jose50 » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:52 am

Ya...whatever...If you've nothing better to do..

mrhump
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Re: Recover them Yes or No

Post by mrhump » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:33 pm

Very disapointing to come back to this site after a year or so and find boorish,patronising comments by some about WW2 wrecks.
Call me old fashioned but I believe that most wrecks should remain where they lie,we all expended much blood and treasure during WW2 and these wrecks belong to all of us.
It seems to me that those aggressively promoting recovery do not really have history in mind but profit.
I was particularly disturbed to read of the ballale island incident,where the local landowners were paid a pittance for the aircraft,long term tourism would reap far more.And of course if these aircraft end up in a private collection then none of us may ever see them again.
The politics of PNG also intrude,corruption is a way of life there and no doubt some on the public payroll did much better out of the treasure seekers than did the landowners.
An open and transparent process may have resulted in film of the recovery which would have given all of us an opportunity to view these historic wrecks.

jose50
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Re: Recover them Yes or No --NO!

Post by jose50 » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:04 am

Again, I have to agree with the foregoing post. Given the thousands of tons of war materiel lost, shot down, sunk, broken, sabotaged, burned, abandoned, left to rot, and otherwise orphaned, I've got to say, "Where do you start?End?Begin?Stop?" What criteria is used as to what would constitute a "worthy" recovery? Would it have to contain human remains? Or not? What possible purpose would one have to salvage a 65 year old wreck? Other than to use it as an example of how corrosion can rot an airframe/ship hull/truck body. Yeah, a lot of steel was used up during WW2; but also during the Korean conflict, the Viet Nam experience and the Gulf wars, not to mention the Grenada party and the time we decided that Panama needed our help. Why isn't anyone salvaging old F-85's or Hueys? How about some F-4e's Oh wait---we already have a bunch of those sitting in the desert.
The point is, all those shot down and otherwise gone pieces of equipment are just that- gone. Leave them be and stop this incessant pouting over who owns what.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. No offense meant to anyone but, come on, get real.

PADutchman
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Re: Recover them Yes or No

Post by PADutchman » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:02 pm

My father was in the 42 Squadron the 11 BGH and there is no one left to communicate with. These GREAT patriots often without fighter Escort fought their battles along. Many of their are reefs now.

I am in contact with a number of families who brother's, fathers and husbands went down in the Pacific, never to be seen or heard from again.

These families would give anything to hold something that remained of their loved ones.

Read the story of the recovery of a flyer's named Doyle and then try to answer this question no.

My father came back trained others and went back into the Pacific with new recruits be he lost many many great friends, buddies and patriots.

He was stationed in Hawaii and at Hickam the morning of the Attack with in second of the beginning of the war he lost his closet friend. They went into the Pacific and only came back when they lost the last of their 3 B-17s on February 1, 1943.

Does who flew in Europe often had their shot down planes recovered, documented, men were found or buried and much of this documented.

NOT so in the Pacific. The friends I have made this summer cherish the things my father had saved and I can share with them, they have nothing else.

We most never forget these Air Corp crews that fought at Midway, the Solomon Islands, Guadalcanal and many other Pacific Island campaigns and have never received the recognition they all deserve. Until the day my father died he never forgot them or their friendships, we should no do not least.

The 11 BGH the 42 Squadron was nominated and awarded by a sister branch of the Armed Service. This never was done before or ever again, that tells the story of their sacrifice.
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Tonyt_nz
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Re: Recover them Yes or No

Post by Tonyt_nz » Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:44 am

I personally think all wrecks should remain where they are, full stop! I think its quite disgusting to see collectors coming to these pacific nations buying up wrecks. I believe these wrecks should remain for all to see and experience, and to further tourism in these very poor countries. Let's hope the credit crunch helps curb this practice for the time being!

NS38th_Aristaeus
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Re: Recover them Yes or No

Post by NS38th_Aristaeus » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:24 pm

Tonyt_nz wrote:I personally think all wrecks should remain where they are, full stop! I think its quite disgusting to see collectors coming to these pacific nations buying up wrecks. I believe these wrecks should remain for all to see and experience, and to further tourism in these very poor countries. Let's hope the credit crunch helps curb this practice for the time being!
First of all lets break this post down.
1. Just exactly who is the for all to see and experience? Do you think the average person is going to trek with their family through the jungle or even to an island in the pacific to see these things? NO, They are going to Disney World. The number of ppl who spend money for the sole purpose of visiting these islands to see the wrecks is probebly minute, the rest of the ppl who spends thier money to visit these islands probebly never lay eyes on a wreck and depending on where the wreck is doesn't want too. These wrecks do not generate enough tourist dollers to warrent them being there.
2. Lets give you the benefit of the doubt and say that 1000's of ppl a year visit these islands to see these wrecks. How many are still going to be there in the next 50, 60, or 100 years. Just how much longer will these wrecks be able to withstand the elements to be worth treking to the pacific to see? When there gone they are gone, forever never to be seen or touched again. Unless you salvage them and get them into a museum where they belong. Then the average person who is taking their family to Disney World just might stop by the local air museum to see these aircraft.
One last thing, if these countries are very poor then that proves the point that these aircraft simply do not generate enough tourism to warrent thier continued expousure to the elements.
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NS38th_Aristaeus
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Re: Recover them Yes or No

Post by NS38th_Aristaeus » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:34 pm

gladys 843 wrote:Wouldn't that be to expensive? I mean you could get the money back with the entrance fee from the museums but still it would be very expensive to recover all of them. And isn't it what it makes a wreck to be in the sea - or do just I see it like that ... For me it is like a grave and shouldn't we let them rest in peace?
For every aircraft salvaged in the pacific there is a museum somewhere in the world that would pay to have it diplayed. there are only a few combat vetern aircraft in the U.S. and they were salvaged from the Great Lakes. These aircraft would be worth there salvage cost. The treaty the U.S. signed with these pacific nations giving them claim over these wrecks was for the sole purpose of keeping other nations and ppl from salvaging them. Why would that be? Because these pacific nations have scrapped wholesale every easily accesable wreck they could find leaving only enough to claim a tourist trade and the ones lost in the jungle. That is right, these nations who moen and groen about salvage operations have scrapped tons of WWII aircraft.
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